Pursuing the my article on the youngsters off Llywelyn Fawr and you will Joanna while the solutions it gotten, We checked once again through the genealogical profiles about Gwladus Ddu. While it’s genuine, just like the multiple genealogists explain, one on lack of definite research in some way, the brand new name of your mommy out of Gwladus Ddu need certainly to are ‘unknown’, I found you should not changes my personal conclusion that their particular mother was Joanna and not Tangwystyl.
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One to after that origin on the subject of their pupils is the following the abstract on the ‘Kings and you can Queens of Britain’ a well-respected publication, authored by Oxford College Force, web page 106:
‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, son regarding Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and Marared, child from Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; partnered Joan, illegitimate daughter from King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
To show that it’s not only me you to definitely thinks therefore, i would ike to quote one genealogist that is a beneficial fan from Sharon: “I am most partial to Sharon Kay Penman’s instructions. Even though they commonly purely biographical, I’m more comfortable depending on their unique strive to ‘submit the blanks’ (because of the number of browse she needless to say put into her guides), than in indeed mentioning particular genealogical supply which i have come around the in my own browse (I’m sure most of us stumble on sources by doing this). To help you those who have not yet discover their unique works, I would suggest it very very, especially if you need to get a be for what lives try such as for instance 800 in years past.”
Their research for ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the new Shadow’ and you may ‘The Reckoning’, carried out before the introduction of the web based, was it is the
Adopting the issues posed because of the Beth, Suzanne and you can Sandy specifically, I set about comparing the fresh identity regarding Joanna’s mother (labeled hereafter, having easier reference because the ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) courtesy an affair toward so you’re able to-be-king John. This proved to be significantly more complex than I might features consider it is possible to! Once powering up of a lot blind alleys, mostly owing to trying get together again the brand new chronology of a single for the most other, You will find compensated about what uses. Really don’t declare that the thing i have written was definitive in virtually any shape otherwise setting, and also the facts are that individuals will probably not yes from their particular title.
(a) This new illegitimate Joanna, child from “Clemence,” are definitely produced out-of wedlock –– as well as turned-out of the Honorius III’s decree claiming their unique genuine from inside the April 1226, in the event without prejudice into the queen otherwise field of England (we.e., giving their particular no-claim to that particular throne). The fresh new decree, which was transcribed on the brand new, unpublished Check in of Honorius III (Reg. 13, fol. 122 ), says inter alia one “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” which, I’m advised, means “Queen John Sevastopol brides agency away from England, whenever unmarried , fathered you of the a single woman.”
This means Joanna can have become born no after than just 1189 whenever John married Isabella out of Gloucester. Her mother, “Clemence” try most likely French or Norman, since the evidence regarding patent goes from John’s rule implies that Joan was lead out-of Normandy so you can The united kingdomt into the December 1203, to set up getting relationships to help you Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (select less than). Joanna died when you look at the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate child Joan, because of the Isabella of Angouleme (married so you can John inside 1200 from the many years several!), came to be at the Gloucester on the twenty two July 1210 (see the Tewkesbury Annals in the Moves Series, vol. thirty-six.i, p. 59; the Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty six.iv, p. 399; and also the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium for John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). This is the Joan whom then married Alexander II regarding Scotland and you may she died within the 1238, particular days once Joanna (this could make up some of the confusion clear involving the one or two feminine). She kept no issue because of the Alexander II.