Many thanks for this new quote that i hadn’t viewed before
I’m not sure should you have access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or not, because it are written because a resource getting People in america with colonial ancestors out-of Plantagenet lineage. He gets among their evidences you to definitely Joanna was the mom regarding Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn gave the new attributes away from Knighton and you will Norton castles in the Shropshire to Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and you may Gwladus had been married. It might have been illegal to american with bogota sexy girl possess Llewelyn giving Joanna’s assets so you’re able to a keen illegitimate child (otherwise one who was not a child off Joanna). The fresh functions from Norton and you may Knighton remained throughout the Mortimer relatives thereafter. The latest quote are, “That if the fresh new Queen render Homes so you’re able to a man that have a woman of their kindred when you look at the frank relationship, and lady dyeth instead of thing, the man throughout the Kings circumstances should not wait for his lifetime, given that woman caused the the new current.” Quite simply, new characteristics would have reverted back into the top ahead of it would have been supplied to a baby who was not Joanna’s.
Hi, Marilyn, I did not gain access to brand new Plantaganet Ancestry of the Doug Richardson, but performed get access to the numerous discussions associated with your and their concepts with other genealogists (specific getting him, however, many also against). I do believe, once i manufactured in my earlier papers, one to just what shifts it for my situation(Joanna being the mommy regarding Gwladus), ‘s the transfer of your attributes your talk about so you’re able to Ralph de- Mortimer up on his ed two of the children ‘John’ and you can ‘Joan.’ I cannot suppose in the event that Gwladus had been new ded their own pupils ergo. In spite of the arguments within eminent genealogists We talk about above, there is a standard opinion you to Gwladus Ddu should be reasonably defined as the child off Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth of the Joanna, child (subsequently legitimised) regarding John, Queen from England. Let me grab so it possibility to accept Sharon (during the a message if you ask me) one to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian was from the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and thus being blood aunt to Gruffudd. I feet this partly for the today’s number utilized in ‘Regal and other Historic emails Illustrative of one’s rule away from Henry 111,’ modified of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. For the users 500-503 ‘s the transcript out of an original letter old Marshall, Earl out-of Pembroke, to King Henry 111. Contained in this page, Marshall discusses their siege of the castles regarding Crum, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. He listings individuals the guy found in the palace O’Realy whenever it surrendered, they incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I’m informed that means that you will find here Gwenllian, daughter off Prince llywelyn, which seems to be called ‘brother out of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd getting new illegitimate son from Llywelyn, it is drawn you to ‘de- patre mais aussi matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd had been complete blood sibling and you will sis. Got Gwenllian started Joanna’s daughter and this Queen Henry’s relative, absolutely Marshall might have mentioned thereon facts? It incapacity of de- Lacy’s wife given that king’s niece, is actually drawn as near particular facts one to Gwenllian was not the new child of king’s aunt Joanna.
This type of services had been part of Joanna’s maritagium out-of her father King John
Ken: Thank you for you to mention of the Gwenllian. I’m most certainly not a specialist genealogist, but I do a great amount of look by myself lines. I think a number of the “pros” are really jealous and you may mad of each and every most other (at the very least obviously way in some of the things it blog post). You will find issues that we are just not planning understand with confidence in the people in the latest MA because they don’t continue public record information for example i manage today, very genealogists and historians need to use their utmost wisdom during the sorting some thing away. In reality, vital records is a pretty “new” concept – of numerous states in the united states did not remain facts away from births and deaths before the very early 1900’s. We fall into several ancestry communities where I’ve had in order to establish eleven or several years, and you may believe me it is not easy. And so i really delight in the issue out-of researching MA ancestors. (As well as the unfortunate matter is the fact that the info that are available into the MA was of royalty and you will nobility – little whatsoever to your preferred people).